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DISCUSSTodd Bentley Fires Blanks in Texas
07/22/2008By Danny Gallagher
DENTON, Tex.--The University of North Texas "Super Pit" indoor stadium is packed to the nosebleed seats with people hoping to see a knee to the stomach, a poke check to the ribs, or the classic swift kick to the cojones–because they all know that mega-evangelist demon stomper Todd Bentley is IN THE HOUSE for one night only.
As the crowd gets lathered up for the event, there are long slow lines snaking out of the ladies rooms that could rival the wait times at Disney World. Overpriced bags of potato chips and canned soda wait behind counters for families who don't stop to think about things like food budgets or their children's blood sugar levels. And almost every seat has a butt planted firmly in it, including the handicapped and disabled sections that are filled with people in wheelchairs.
They want God and they want Todd, not necessarily in that order.
Bentley doesn't wear $2,000 custom made suits or exotic Italian shoes to show how God helped him attain his empire. He wears blue jeans with holes in the knees and Jesus-themed T-shirts that look like they came off the rack of an evangelical chopper shop. His arms are filled with a gaggle of tattoos that are a mesh of mutating gangrene through eyes from 20 rows away, and his face has an assortment of metal piercings and barbells, which are reminiscent of his early days as a hard-partying, drug-snorting, whiskey-soaked juvenile criminal who has a colored criminal rap sheet of assaults, burglaries and even sexual molestations, according to an investigative report conducted by the news magazine Report in Bentley's native Canada.
A native of British Columbia, Bentley became famous overnight after just four months of tent revivals in a Lakeland, Florida, RV park that are picked up and re-broadcast by an internet network called GOD TV. Bentley breaks the mold for itinerant healing acts, using street cred and biker lingo instead of the usual light shows and altar calls, but his supernatural story-spinning is truly inspired: messages from angels, out-of-body trips up to heaven, fantastic healings that are not only instantaneous but backed up by “documented medical evidence” that, according to the Associated Press, doesn’t get widely produced.
His revivals resemble Pantera shows. He doesn't just speak in tongues and scream into microphones. Bentley rids people of their emotional and physical demons by beating, slamming or kicking them out of their bodies because a) God commands him to, and b) "Sometimes when you're dealing with a demon spirit, it's done with great force."
Unfortunately, Todd is making a rare venture out of Lakeland just as his tent meetings are starting to burn out. A recent "Nightline" story painted his church in a very unflattering light both from the perspective of a father who brought his sick child all the way from Seattle to the local townspeople who feel his presence has put a blight on their small Southern city. Eventually Bentley announced he was leaving Lakeland "to reflect and to rest."
Apparently he’s about to find out that skipping town is the best thing he can do for his credibility anyway. The nearest parking space tonight is on the other side of Fouts Field and takes more than a half an hour to find, so I know the crowd is going to be a large one. Families trudge through the cement-steaming heat with their Bibles in one hand and children in the other. The most popular themed T-shirts are a Reese's Pieces wrapper parody and the eye-grabbing "Under the Influence…of Christ!" Bentley also draws more than his share of actual bikers, complete with the jackets, the vests and the colorsas well as a noticeable number of biker jackets and leather vests on the backs of bikers for Christ.
The pre-show features a soft rock band, the same band that seems to pop up at every revival, singing the same religious phrases 30 or 40 times through cheap-sounding concert equipment to whip the crowd into the kind of spirit-shaking frenzy that only an epileptic seizure could replicate. Just off to the side stands Bentley, psyching himself up, changing positions from lying on his stomach (ground meditation?) to pumping his fist to the blaring beat of the drums.
On this night Bentley shares a double bill with preacher Keith Miller of the Denton-based Stand World Firm Ministries who tells the assembled 8,000 that "Tonight, we're going to have an early Fourth of July" (minus, of course, the fireworks, free hot dogs and constant replaying of Lee Greenwood's "God Bless the U.S.A." until your ears bleed). Then finally, Miller asks the crowd to give Bentley "a great big God bless you" as he steps up to the mike and fulfills the crowd's insatiable appetite for some serious UFC-style demon ass-kicking.
Bentley knows how to work the crowd. He doesn't immediately launch into a barrage of BAMs or let the Holy Spirit ragdoll him into the "Curly Shuffle." Instead he starts with the revival equivalent of "Hello, Cleveland, are you ready to rock?"
"There was only two other times that I would go into another city and He was there," Bentley said, "but I didn't feel it the way I feel it now in Texas. This is the place where the fire of God will fall. It's already falling!"
The crowd feeds into his enthusiasm and Bentley launches into a rapid-fire repetition of "Holy Glory!" until the entire stadium can hear his vocal chords crack.
"Do you want the glory?!?" Bentley screams. "The smoking holy glory?!?"
He falls to both knees, shaking his head from side to side, as muffled screams reverberate through his rubbery lips.
"Let the outpouring come here tonight!" he shouts. "Let the coals fall tonight!"
Then he brings it down. Bentley talks about the early days of his ministry, visions of heavenly bodies and settings and divine prophecies as told through the mouths of angels. He talks about his legion of 10,000 "harvesters" who roam the streets of Lakeland looking to spread the word of his miracles and God's capacity to work through him. He even talks about his pilgrimages to cities and nations who are "hungry" for the word of God in a calm and registered tone–and all that lasts about eight seconds.
"I've come here to help spread the fire," Bentley says. "BAM! BAM!"
Four or five BAMs later Bentley utters an ear-shattering KABOOM in Miller's direction and the Denton preacher falls over backwards, shaking and twitching like a slab of bacon that's been thrown on a hot griddle.
Bentley goes on for another two hours about his divine medical miracles, supernatural surgeries, religious root canals and raising of 30 people from the dead, including one poor soul who asked his family to play his revival at the funeral and started knocking on the inside of the coffin. Unfortunately, there won't be any such miracles performed this night. No one in a wheelchair is pushed to the stage. No cancer survivors walk up the stairs to thank Bentley for kicking the carcinoma right out of them or a recently departed zombie for returning him to the land of the living. Not one crutch-clutching crowd member hobbles to the stage to get the holy head-butt from Bentley himself. Truth be told, I was a little disappointed.
So were a lot of other people who frankly had more of a right to be than I did. William Dembski, a research professor of philosophy at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, attended Bentley's Denton revival with his wife and their twin 7-year-old boys, one of whom is autistic, at the behest of his friends who told him Bentley had the healing touch. He couldn't even get his family down to the main floor to pray.
"Ushers twice prevented that from happening," Dembski said in the Baptist Press. "They noted that he was not in a wheelchair. . . . People with needs were shortchanged. It seemed that power, prestige and money (in that order) were dominating motives behind the meeting. Minimal time was given to healing, though plenty was devoted to assaulting our senses with blaring insipid music and even to Bentley promoting and selling his own products (books and CDs)."
Just before the revival reaches its third hour, Bentley asks for an offering. Badge-clad volunteers roam up and down the aisles with white plastic buckets while parents and adults whip out their checkbooks or pull some big bills out of their wallets, all of which would go to Miller's ministry, Bentley claimed. By that time it’s obvious there’s gonna be no carcinoma-kicking, so most of the contributors were probably just showing their gratitude for the absence of Lee Greenwood music.
A member of the Emeril fan club, are we?
Wow, New Fire, you get an "A" on your Patricia King studies! Go out and celebrate at Club Mysterio and do some trance dancing so the Word of God becomes one with you! Your post was full of scriptures taken out of context...Patricia would be so proud of her disciple! I truly hope and pray that it was by God's hand that your child was healed and it is permanent as Jesus healed instantly and permanently. Be careful that you know the only true God and His Son, Jesus, whom He has sent. Abide His warnings about wolves in sheep's clothing. Heck, the wolves aren't even bothering with the sheep suit these days! Remember Matthew 7:21-23!
Fortune cookies are yummy!
I didn't know that it was MY word; at least in the tradition of my upbringing the bible was known as "God's Word." Now, the experience of life has altered my view to believe that the bible is "words about the Word." The fact that you try to make the bible something "possessed" by those who read it makes me wonder if you feel that you somehow possess/own God as some sort of errand boy for your various needs.
I don't have problems believing that God intervenes, I just have trouble believing that God is an errand boy bent by the commands of others. That's one of my problems with a "health and wealth" worldview; it tries to imply that God is commanded around by people simply because they're "good" people. To such people, I prescribe reading Job and Ecclesiastes; actually, I prescribe reading them to everyone. I just especially prescribe reading them to those who wonder "where God is" in their troubles or those who see God as their errand boy.
Dear New age Fire,
The door has gotten really loose, in fact it's about to fall off it's hinges. This seems more like a gossip column than anything.
Not all the foundations have been destroyed. But those who are truly anointed of God are not flaunting it and they are not selling it. Forgive us for taking cheap shots. I pray that God would give you the grace to make it out of the fire in one peice because many will not.
Romans 8:5 Those who live by the corrupt nature have the corrupt nature's attitude. But those who live by the spiritual nature have the spiritual nature's attitude.
Micah 3:5 Thus says the LORD concerning the prophets who lead my people astray; When they have something to bite with their teeth, They cry, "Peace," But against him who puts nothing in their mouths They declare holy war.
Luke 16:31 "Abraham answered him, 'If they won't listen to Moses' [Teachings] and the Prophets, they won't be persuaded even if someone comes back to life.'"
2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
We must be careful because everything is not as it would appear to be and true discernment only comes from God! Also remember Romans 11:4 But what is the divine response to him? "I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL."
There is the church that calls herself a bride but she is really a whore! Let God separate the precious from the vile that we may see the err of our ways and repent.
God bless you also.
New Fire, you're attacking the wrong people. attack the ones who are nothing but scam artists fleecing the gullible while twisting God's word into a pretzel.
God can, and does heal, every day, but uses humble vessels like the Aussie guy, not scam artists who put personal profit ahead of ministry. i don't recall Jesus or the Apostles charging for miracles, or doing any of what some call "Annointed Ministry" today.
Billy Graham and Chuck Swindoll are excellent examples of Godly men who weren't/aren't in the ministry to fleece people, and i like what i've read here from the Aussie guy.
You are very deluded OR well paid!!!
Of course, there are two ways to read Sinclair Lewis. . .
Bentley may be a modern-day Elmer Gantry, but maybe God is using him just the same?
If nothing else, look at it this way: Todd is attracting the flakier church-goer that most of you don't want to rub elbows with anyway at your own church. He is also gathering a great number of seekers that may not have been willing to hear the gospel in any other form.
I don't much care for his style either, but I am not in a hurry to pick up and armload of rocks to chuck at him. I too busy looking for Windex to clean the panes of my glass house.
Jesus said in the same sermon:
Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you.
and. . .
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. By their fruits ye shall know them.
Do not judge; however we can judge if a person is a false prophet.
Paul also noted:
Th 2:9-12 The man of sin will come with the power of Satan. He will use every kind of power, including miraculous and wonderful signs. But they will be lies. He will use everything that God disapproves of to deceive those who are dying, those who refused to love the truth that would save them. That's why God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe a lie. Then everyone who did not believe the truth, but was delighted with what God disapproves of, will be condemned.
How sad; but God himself sends the delusion to those that follow the evil toad, "todd"
Actually Matthew 7:1 is talking about judging in hypocrasy.
In 1 Corinthians 14:29 it says
Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge (KJV)
The NIV says Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said.
It is our Christian duty to judge whether Todd Bentley is a true prophet of God and if he is not (which is the view that I take) then we must warn others.
Hey REV,
I could be wrong, but I think you might be confusing the two similar, but different, actions of judgment and discernment.
There is a big difference between thinking a guy might be a crackpot at best and a snake oil salesman at worst and avoiding him, and shouting loud from the roof tops that somebody is a "son of satan" or some of the other wild things being stated on this site. Granted, The Door, is about wit and sarcasm and we are supposed to be chiding folks with tongue planted firmly in cheek.
Like I said before, I don't much like this guy's style, but lets not gather up rope and wood for Salem style BBQ either.
Even satan is a tool in the hand of God, to bring about His purpose and plan for His Glory.
ah, Discerner... ye took the words right out of my mouth.
anyone have a spare millstone?
SRebbe,sorry didn't mean to steal your thunder. Not to worry Todd won't run out of material for you to comment on!
As a recently released movie states, "you can either die young or live long enough to see yourself become the enemy." I do not understand nor agree with everything spoken in Lakeland Florida or through Fresh Fire Ministries but we live in a day where it is cool, both inside and outside the church to be a fast-drawing critic. Judging, whining, complaining and blaming others is very much in vogue. However, none of these things were promoted by Jesus or his Apostles that wrote the Bible we read.
Sometimes Door stuff is funny, but other times it is over-the-top rude, cynical and just down right mean-spirited. One example was recently proclaiming Charleston Heston the "Loser of the Month" immediately after the man died. I just had to think about his family and loved ones and how extremely cold, the timing was. If you want to proclaim someone loser of the month, you could at least do it while they are alive. But sometimes the Door fires right below the belt. Also, to be honest, I found the whole concept of a "Loser-of-the-Month" to be more then a little cocky and proud. It is like, "lets make ourselves look better by finding and easy target and putting them down." This is not how we learned Christ! Didn't He say something about how no man who proclaims another man to be an "empty-headed fool" would escape the fires of hell?
Sometimes when we look in the mirror, we see a face of a Pharisee and not someone whom is slow to judge or slow to anger. This point has become more clear to myself personally as I have watched more of what went on in Lakeland. I was the guy too quick to throw out criticism of things that I never gave an honest chance to. While I will not condone some of the things taught on Christian Television, neither should I try to make myself better by putting down things that go against the grain of my own personality. This man Todd will one day answer to God personally for all that he has done, and so will we. It is not our place to proclaim ourselves Judges but it is our place to take the fruit of the Spirit seriously, like patience, loving kindness, humility and goodness.
The other stern warning that comes to mind is when Jesus told the Pharisees that the only unforgivable sin was to Blaspheme the Holy Spirit. The context of the verse was the Pharisees said that Jesus was casting out Devils by the power of Satan. Or in other words, Jesus said that attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to Demons and to mock those works was the worst sin anyone can commit. Yes, even worse then whatever specifically it is that you do not like the TV preachers preaching about. Does anyone have the Fear of the Lord? How tragic it would be if one day we go die, go to heaven, and all the while find out that we were not on Jesus side, but rather on the side throwing stones and mocking the strange things that God does do. I confess that I am repenting of my "bad attitude." Anyone else out there care to follow? If you don't like something, pray to God about it. Just don't forget that God loves even the weird TV evangelists. And if God once spoke through a Donkey of all things, is it really all that hard to believe that he might use someone on TV? Even despite all of their personal short-comings and sins? He might even use me or you, even though we have just as many short-comings and misbeliefs.
Just call this, some food for thought...
amen.
i saw bentley in denton and didn't agree but came to somewhat the same conclusion-that its not my place to judge, though it is easy. i don't agree with todd but i will try my hardest to not judge.
but all and all, discerning in this day is the most important thing that i can see a christian doing...
I think as Christians we get it twisted as to what we can or cannot judge. Can we look at Bentley's fruit, or lack of it in light of the Word of God? yeah, we can. If we don't judge, how will we warn others?
we are called not to judge sinners, those who do not have the light. those who claim to walk in the light, who have the light, and yet mislead, those are the ones we are called to hold up to the light.
these are the ones Christ held up to the light and called vipers, whitewashed tombs. these are the ones to be judged because they claim to be without sin. these are the ones who mislead the babes of Christ; the self-righteous, the self-serving, those who put on an act. the true hypocrites -- the actors who don masks for the world to gaze upon their wondrous powers instead of living a quiet life, serving others that Christ may be glorified instead of themselves.
who really is their god?
Exactly. Well said.
If we aren't supposed to judge sinners then why are we called to preach the Gospel? DOH! I forgot that the new way to share the Gospel is to keep quiet about the sinner's sins! Sorry.
I completely agree! My gosh, what are we supposed to do just say YES to everything someone standing behind a pulpit says! I know so many people who did absolutely no research on Todd Bentley and yet, they were so open to it -- whatever our local pastor says, goes! Forget it! We have every right to call these jokers out. THE TRUTH ALWAYS PREVAILS! Thank you, Jesus!
We are told to 'judge righteous judgment'. If we will 'know them by their fruits'... one of the fruits of the Spirit is 'SELF CONTROL', which is not evident in any of the meetings I have been watching. The 'DON'T JUDGE' is used to WHIP God's people into OBEDIENCE and thus make them SWALLOW ANYTHING THESE PEOPLE WANT TO SERVE YOU. The same with 'TOUCH NOT GOD'S ANOINTED'. It has been used to FORCE, INTIMIDATE God's precious sheep into SUBMISSION. THEN, these WOLVES have FREE REIGN and CONTROL. THEY GOT YOU, and they GOT YOUR MONEY, and THEY GOT POWER OVER YOU. And you are TOO AFRAID to DISCERN or QUESTION anything they say or teach, for FEAR of the JUDGMENT OF GOD!!!! WAKE UP CHURCH!
Another point I wanted to make was that there is a difference between 'FRUIT' and 'WORKS'. Fruit: Peace, love, GENTLENESS, etc... while works would be 'preaching, healing, etc. WHAT did the 'false prophets' say to Jesus in the Bible: "Haven't we cast out devils, and in YOUR NAME done many wonderful WORKS"... They DIDN'T say, "Haven't we been filled with your LOVE, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS, LONGSUFFERING... etc.." and Jesus will say "DEPART, I NEVER KNEW YOU... Yes, there is a difference between FRUIT and WORKS! We are to judge by the FRUIT, not the WORKS!
No discernment.." My people perish for lack of knowledge of the word of God". We are not to judge those outside the church, we are to judge those within the church. That was Paul who wrote that. Read the book of Jude ( its right before revelation ) The entire book is about whack Jobs, they are called "TWICE DEAD" hows that for judgement by Jesus half brother. Copeland, Hinn, and yes even
robert schuler & son, Joel Osteen, Paula White, The Crouches, ( although Mrs. Crouch has the best hair since Tammy Faye RIP was in her hey day). If you are getting your theology from these blow Hards, it is obvious why you are decieved. Satan is said to be the prince of the power of the air. I suggest that includes the air waves for the most part. God bless the few not perfect but faithful
preachers. You can tell who they are by their smaller congregations, generally. godrocketsquad.com
RJ, Unfortunately your stance is typical of most fence sitting believers. I believe it is time to call things for what they are. I am angry because there are deceivers out there who are leading the sheep astray, while the Church on the whole says in a weak lilly livered manner "Oh we must not judge we should just pray for them, we are all sinners etc.." you get my drift. YES! we should judge, read your bible, we need to warn and protect the sheep in the strongest terms to repent and fully turn to Christ. Wake up for the time of strong delusion is upon us as a judgment for a backslidden lukewarm state. However I do not hate Todd Bentley I feel genuine pity for him, I will pray for him to come to his senses as I honestly believe he is sincere but deceived. I also feel in some way he is being set up fronting a movement by many in the new apostolic reformation movement and the dominionist, manifest sons of God crowd such as Paul Cain, Bob Jones (false prophets et all) etc. All of whom should know better. I am angry with their strategy. I am angry with the Toronto and Pensacola nonsense that led many astray (myself included for a time) I am angry that the propagators of those false revivals are behind Todd's false revival as if to bask in some reflected glory believing that it vindicates and re-fuels the former movement and keeps alive their flagging ministries. It sometimes seems that many of these more established 'stars' are pushing Todd to the front and in doing so will he become the fall guy? How many will still be supporting and honouring Todd Bentley once the dust settles and it is apparent to all that the gold was nothing more than at best dust.
(For a full understanding of 'Judge not' may I refer you to an article by James Jacob Prasch of Moriel Ministries)
Yours in Christ.
Unity - Eph 4:13. Look at the yellow pages, for a Church... hundreds.
I believe God is preparing the Church for a Wedding Feast. Cleaning it up. Don't be supprised by what shows up on TV, newspapers and the web. In the name of God, they killed the prophets, in the name of God they massacared the Muslims. What next.
It's gonna get worse before it gets better. Remember the priority of Prayer, Our Father Who art in Heaven Hallowed be thy name, Thy Kingdom Come...
dnomyar34
Judge Not by James Jacob Prasch is THE article that set me straight on judging righteous judgement. Glad you mentioned it as I see some need to read it. It is edifying and helpful. I, too, am praying for Todd Bentley. I also believe he is a money maker for the NAR false prophets. Patricia King helped him to fame. She is a former (?) witch and now, a false prophetess. I have seen the Bentlyites parrot her teachings in defence of Todd. Sad.
I confess I love his roadshow, because it is so over-the-top, but I keep wanting to see him raise his gangrening arms from so many tats and wrap them clean...see him instantly shed the fat from his horribly and dangerous fat staff with a good sweeping BOOM-M!! His staff just looks so damn filthy and unhealthy
Whatever. That is just wrong.
Christianity in America obviously is not about Jesus anymore. It's a self-help social commentary and sport and fitness club. No wonder kids walk away in droves from the heritage of their fathers and mothers - if both of those parents are even still living in the same home as those children.
AMEN Thomas!
I grew up in that "old time Gospel" and I walked away in droves. New style religion doesn't have anything to do with it. I suspect it has more to do with people not being so scared of going to hell anymore. That's a good thing by the way. I believe there are more people in church, just because they want to be, than anytime in history. (overall numbers, not per capita)
a general grammatical curiosity... how does one walk away 'in droves'? that is one cool trick I'd love to witness. were smoke and mirrors involved? ;)
"that ol' time religion -- scarin' the hell outta ya since 1402"
The mystery wasn't so much grammatical as it was spiritual. I think some of the laws of physics were bent as well. Or it was just a matter of all my many split personalities waking up at the same time.
Righteous irksome ignores grammar and spellcheck sometimes. Sheeka Boom Bah!
Sir, please stop texting in tongues. It is quite annoying and doesn't have the effect your intending.
I don't think that is the words of a man speaking in tounges.
It sounds more like the words of a man who has zipped his manhood up in his zipper.
Uh... Sheeka Boom Bah. At least one admits it's the gift of tongues. Nothing in my zipper - so... what are you looking at?
As someone who was raised Pentecostal...
simply repeating "Sheekah Boom Bah," has NOTHING to do with "the gift of tongues." I don't know where you get that, but it sure as hell (tee hee) isn't a "gift of the Spirit."
I didn't say anything about the "gift" of tongues. Let me rephrase my original post; Please stop texting nonsensical gibberish, it is annoying and doesn't have the intended effect.
With all the potential for violence maybe he can sublet Joel Osteen's old hockey stadium?
how about a Joel vs Todd Celebrity Deathmatch
Pay-per-view - I would so purchase that one
People... You can judge with righteous judgment. No where in the Word of God does God tell us to not judge properly. That is a lie from the pit of hell. As for discernment, any one can see from the lack of doctrine of Todd and what he says that he is not evidencing the nature and character of the Holy Spirit. I do not know why Christian are so "scared" to mark this man and move away from him. Examine his doctrine and examine his fruits...are they of the Lord?
Our template to check out all manifestations of the Holy Spirit is the Word of God. If it does not fit the Word of God, reject it as heresy and reprove it.
Todd has shown enough via his live circus performances that God is not being honored and the way of the Cross is not being lifted up.
Test all things...test all things. the real church of God needs to rise up and exercise its discernment and speak out.
How to get discernment? Read the Word of God and pray. It is sad that so many people are flocking to this babbler thinking that God is honoring this madness. When Todd first mentioned the angel Emma...that should have been sufficient to run from this guy but what did we do...we sat around and listened and were sucked in by seducing spirits and doctrines of demons.
Google Emma and see what you find. It is a demonic spirit. Enough said. Todd is deluded and is deluding others.
Note: demons do not come out by a lot of force...as so stated by Todd. The Spirit of God does not have to wrestle with a demon spirit to cast it out. Where is our Bible knowledge???
Note: Todd placed all of these tattoos and piercings in and on his body after he purportedly was converted to Christ. Some of the images are demonic (Satanic pentagram for example).
Rise up church and stop being so childish and allowing such nonsense to captivate you.
Note: his outlandish stories of spiritual surgeries and visits to
heaven and talking to angels...these are not of the Lord. They are not in the Word of God.
Flee from this man...now.
One question from your statements:
WHAT IS THE WAY OF THE CROSS?
Secondly - Your note at the bottom - what happened to Paul when he was taken up to the heavens? What about Jacob wrestling the Angel? What about Saul being struck by God in front of Samuel, stripping naked and prophesying for a day and half under the Spirit of God at Samuel's feet?
I got more.
Read that plumb line you refer to as the "Bible."
Let's have a discussion.
Well, look who thinks he knows Scripture! Paul was an unbeliever when he was struck to the ground at the sight of the Lord. Has Bentley or anyone who claims to have seen Jesus, fallen as though blinded by the glory as Paul, or as though dead, like John the Apostle? Or even as Abraham in reverence? Bentley didn't, according to his testimony. BTW, how do we know what He looks like? We need to be careful not to make Him of our own imagination. Jacob wrestled with God- a one time special encounter that had more to do with the nation of Israel being birthed than Jacob's agenda. Are there any NT Scriptures to reveal that this should be a practice- seeing angels? NO! Saul's prophesying was a one time special event as given by God. Did Saul ever do it again? NO! Is it shown to be a practice of the NT saints to go to the third heaven as Paul, or to go into a trance as Peter did? NO! False teaching says that one time, God given events in Scripture should be a practice and that the devil stole it from the Church ages ago. False teachers claim that they are taking back what the devil stole. How do you know, if it was stolen or if it was by God's hand (if such practices were the norm in the Early Church-though these things really were not done)? While we are at it, calling fire down from Heaven is calling for God's judgement. Jesus told Peter to chill when he wanted to do that. John the Baptist announced Jesus as One who will baptize with the Spirit (positive, a good thing) and with fire (negative, a bad thing, i.e., judgement) so if you think its about power, you've been duped by the devil because of your zeal without knowledge. And, people, if you must go here or there, or do this or that, to come into God's presence, or to have a deeper feeling of His presence, then check to see if Christ is in you. Do you really have the witness of the Holy Spirit? If you are truly saved then you can't get any closer to God than that.
I do know the scripture concerning KING SAUL - the first appointed King of Israel. If you knew your scripture, you would know that Paul was not around when Samuel was around.
Furthermore,
These events happened and can happen to anyone. They are not seeking anything but an encounter with God. Should it not be the quest of Christians to seek relationship with God? Can God decide how he will reveal himself? Did not God send Michael to Daniel when Daniel prayed? Daniel had an encounter with an angel? Are angels not around anymore? Is the Bible so far out of our western rationalism that maybe we need to lay aside OUR assumptions so we can apporach God ready for what HE wants to do in our lives.
The theological suppositions against what is happening in Lakeland really do shake everything you believe. Your religious box is taped tight. God can do anything he wants to do and can send a garrison of angels with all sorts of names on his behalf with a single command. HE IS GOD. What is around his throne honoring him night and day?
It's far fetched fantasy or bold faced reality that believers will eventually have to come to realize.
I agree totally Lafe, and furthermore, besides EMMA and WINDS OF CHANGE angels, they also are doing 'third heaven trips, and the portals, soaking prayer, visualization, now coming is the Ekelsis Trance Dancing...and all of this by CHARASMATIC CHRISTIAN (supposedly) LEADERS. God's people need to QUIT ENABLING these false ministers, QUIT FUNDING them and QUIT LISTENING to them, at least UNTIL and IF they REPENT!
Be heeeeeealda,now give up yor cash...cha ching!!!
Slider, you got that backwards. Its "Gimme the cash and you'll be heealda!" According as you give, so shall you receive...
Uh.... My friend, Troy, got healed of 7 bulging discs in Lakeland by God, My other friend, Roy, his wife got healed in her back from an injury suffered in a horsebackriding accident. They came from London to Lakeland. You can say what you want about Todd. You miss the point completely.
All of a sudden when people are actually free to be abandoned in worship - comes people like Danny and co. slamming it. If Todd instigates faith then so what. Jesus did nothing but help people from unbelief to belief. He did it through miracles, transfigurations and preaching of the Word of God. He said he saw angels decending and ascending and all sorts of stuff. then he told Phillip he would do greater things then even he did. Why? Well, the Holy Spirit (i.e. Jesus) would be with him.
You guys should read your Bible. YOur human rationalism is falling short and binding you up like a cheap paperback romance novel. God didn't come to coddle you in your misery and offer you some harlequin faith. He came to rescue you, set you free and equip you to do the things he did. Todd does that more than all of you because he actually believes Jesus the ultimate author of what is going on in Lakeland, Denton and anywhere else.
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